ChargePlace Scotland overstay fees

[Rolfe]

Better policing is needed to reduce the incidence of ICEd-up charging bays. The type 2s near my friend's house that I used last week were full of ICE cars most of the time and nobody charging - nobody could charge. It's possible the drivers didn't even realise what they were doing. There were small-ish signs on poles beside the chargers saying "electric vehicles only" but they were too high to be easily noticeable, and there was nothing painted on the actual parking spaces. If there is never a parking warden to enforce this, what chance do we have?

I was always able to charge, because I could see the chargers from my bedroom window and nip out. But imagine repeatedly driving several blocks to find all the spaces taken even though the chargers aren't in use.

The parking spaces with the chargers face on to a patch of grass - it's the edge of a park. I threatened quite seriously to drive the car on to the grass so that I could get my type 2 cable to one of the chargers from behind, and argue it out with any "keep off the grass" types who objected.

The charging spots are the four bays to the right of the disabled spaces. The chargers hadn't been installed last time Google Streetview was round.

 

[smokie]

I would support overstay charges I'm afraid, so long as it's done properly. I get a bit fed up with "entitled" people expecting to be able to do just what they want when and where they want, with no consideration for others.

And how did you reach the conclusion that the van driver deserves everything he gets but everyone else should not be subject to overstay chargers?

It really isn't as simple as "just install more chargers" though is it Rolfe. They need adequate power to the site. there is a huge cost with each charger and probably a raft of permissions and sign offs required.

And of course they are being installed by businesses who are trying to make money. If you really think it's that easy why not start up a business putting in chargers?

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not against overstay charges in principle, for example I think they're necessary here where there is only a single charger. They're also not that high here - no penalty for an overstay of less than 10 minutes , then you start racking up £1 a minute, presumably kicking off with £10 for the grace period you overstayed.

I think the Cambridge Street ones are excessive, a flat £40 the second you're over your time period. On a bank of type 2 chargers in a car park which appear never to be all in use simultaneously - I've checked this one a lot on ZapMaps because I wanted to get an idea of how likely it was I'd be able to find a spot if I wanted it. I'd say 100% chance unless there's a power cut or something. Right now all eight connectors are flagged as available. All eight were available when I showed up yesterday evening. One other EV came to take a spot while I was waiting to start charging. I think there was one other there when I returned to my car. On an evening when an extremely popular opera was being performed at the nearby theatre.

I mean, for four hours on one of these chargers you'd probably end up drawing maybe £10 to £12 of chargeable electricity, plus £1 connection fee. Is a flat fee of £40 a reasonable imposition for someone who stays for 4 hours and 1 minute, when probably only a couple of the chargers are in use and anyone rocking up would be able to connect immediately?

I'm a vet, not an expert in electrical supply. But this is in the middle of a very large city which has just introduced a low emissions zone and if they can't run to a few more charge points then there's something very wrong going forward. If the connectors are never over-subscribed (as seems to be the case), any sane business model would encourage people to stay longer, not kick them off after delivering about 40% (SR) battery capacity. If they become over-subscribed, then if the company can't make money out of installing more, again there's something very wrong with their business model.

Personally, I think that £40 overstay fee is a hangover from when the chargers were free, only last year, and they didn't think it through and re-calibrate when they stuck the 40p per KWh charge on them.

 

[Tig170]

Post #61 - what’s the issue?

 

[Rolfe]

Post #61 - what’s the issue?

The issue is that the four parking spaces to the right of the disabled spaces now have type 2 EV chargers on them. (Not there when the Google Streetview van went past last.) However the good burghers of Halifax have carried right on parking their ICE cars in the spots just like they always did. Getting access to a charger at a time when the park is busy is well-nigh impossible.

There is no impediment to driving a car on to the grass the parking spaces face on to (only a low kerb). The temptation to drive on to the grass to get an EV close enough to a charger to get a type 2 lead on it is pretty strong.

Even some paint on the tarmac, an EV symbol to match the disabled designations in the two left-hand spaces, would be something.

 

[Gomev]

..

If Mr Tesla decides to do his balance charge and someone else needs a rapid charge in a hurry, we don't want him on there all day. (All night we could probably cope with.)

..

Generally you can use the type 2 as well as one of the rapid connectors at the same time, just not the 2 rapid connectors at the same time.
Maybe the CPS boxes are different but I wouldn't have thought so.

 

[Rolfe]

Only one car can use this charger at any one time. When you check in you're asked which connector you want, and the other two are disabled. There is no way to activate the type 2 if one of the DC connectors is in use, or vice versa.

Whichever connector you use, you get 55 min max, because nobody else can use the charger while you're using it.

I note that in a couple of larger villages there is also a two-connector type 2 charger as well as the combined DC/AC single use one. I presume that's because of demand. But we don't have that.

 

[Gomev]

Only one car can use this charger at any one time. When you check in you're asked which connector you want, and the other two are disabled. There is no way to activate the type 2 if one of the DC connectors is in use, or vice versa.

Whichever connector you use, you get 55 min max, because nobody else can use the charger while you're using it.

I note that in a couple of larger villages there is also a two-connector type 2 charger as well as the combined DC/AC single use one. I presume that's because of demand. But we don't have that.

That is unusual.

 

[Rolfe]

Not so unusual around here. They put these things into villages where there isn't a lot of demand but all delivery options need to be available.

 

[Gomev]

Regarding overstay fees, let's not forget that Tesla Superchargers have always had an overstay fee, and apart from the odd occasion the banks of them are never full.
I don't think many, if any, EV drivers object to these fees on rapids in fact I think they are a positive, but on an AC destination charger is just plain bonkers.

 

[Ruislip Resident]

Regarding overstay fees, let's not forget that Tesla Superchargers have always had an overstay fee, and apart from the odd occasion the banks of them are never full.
I don't think many, if any, EV drivers object to these fees on rapids in fact I think they are a positive, but on an AC destination charger is just plain bonkers.

I think they are relevant if you are in the bay but not charging. Eg you set charge up to 80%. You are away for 3 hours but have hit 80% after 2 hours but are still plugged in, not charging, potentially stopping anyone else from charging.

 

[Rolfe]

Regarding overstay fees, let's not forget that Tesla Superchargers have always had an overstay fee, and apart from the odd occasion the banks of them are never full.
I don't think many, if any, EV drivers object to these fees on rapids in fact I think they are a positive, but on an AC destination charger is just plain bonkers.

I read that the Tesla fees only apply if more than half the chargers are occupied, and only go up to the maximum if there is near capacity occupancy.

I think it all depends on level of demand. If there's a reason the number of chargers can't be increased and occupancy is high it's fair enough. I give you the village where there's only one, and it's not used enough to justify another one, but you still need to stop that single one being hogged for hours so nobody else can get on it. Even one person brings the facility to 100% occupancy. (That's the situation the OP is referring to.)

I think destination chargers should have a long enough time to allow people to do what they came to do. Nobody wants to have to run back to their car to disconnect it because their target charge has been reached (or an arbitrary time limit has been reached), half way through dinner or a meeting or a concert.

If demand for these things is high, they need more chargers. This is going to be the future, where people expect to be able to leave their car on a type 2 charger for the duration of their visit, and providers need to get on with it. That includes people being able to leave their car overnight if they're staying in a hotel. There is a car park in Aberdeen where this facility is already available, and I think it's ChargePlace Scotland, too.

My gripe with the ones at Cambridge Street is that they are never close to full occupancy, but ChargePlace Scotland have slapped an arbitrary four hour time limit on them with an instant £40 fine - far more than the cost of the electricity you could draw in that time - the second you go over. They'll hardly ever levy that fine, people will just stress and leave their meeting or whatever to disconnect the car (and who cares if they even move it, it won't be in anyone's way).

They could quite easily remove the time limit, or make it a lot longer, and save their customers stress while actually selling more electricity! If the chargers get busier and full occupancy starts to happen, great! This is a successful business model. Just put chargers into more of the parking spaces! At present less than 1% of the spaces in that car park have charging facility. There need to be plans to increase this, given that Glasgow is introducing a low emissions zone in about ten days.

 

[smokie]

Tesla Superchargers have always had an overstay fee, and ... are never full.

I wonder if these facts are related?

 

[Gomev]

I read that the Tesla fees only apply if more than half the chargers are occupied, and only go up to the maximum if there is near capacity occupancy.

...

The point being that people are aware and get themselves shifted ASAP.
The chargers may only have a couple charging when you start, but you wander off for a coffee and 7 more pile in and suddenly the bank is full and you aren't aware. You just have to get back and get off....just in case.

...

My gripe with the ones at Cambridge Street is that they are never close to full occupancy, but ChargePlace Scotland have slapped an arbitrary four hour time limit on them with an instant £40 fine - ...

Again the point is, maybe they are never close to full occupancy when you see them, but who's to say next week they might be and it's you wanting a charge.

 

[Rolfe]

The point being that people are aware and get themselves shifted ASAP.
The chargers may only have a couple charging when you start, but you wander off for a coffee and 7 more pile in and suddenly the bank is full and you aren't aware. You just have to get back and get off....just in case.


Again the point is, maybe they are never close to full occupancy when you see them, but who's to say next week they might be and it's you wanting a charge.

I think the Tesla app keeps drivers up to date with the situation at the chargers, but don't quote me on that. In any case, these are rapid chargers where people are expected to fill up and go, not destination chargers where the idea is to charge gradually over the period of time where you'd be parked in that space anyway.

As to the Cambridge Street chargers, I have only seen them in the flesh so to speak once. They're tucked away in a corner I never looked at before, although I have been using that car park since Scottish Opera moved to the Theatre Royal, which was about the time I passed my driving test, i.e. 1972. My point is that I checked them a lot on the app over two or three weeks, at different times of the day, and I never saw more than two flagged as "charging" at any one time. You think they're often at full occupancy some times I never checked? Really?

My other point is that that multi-storey car park is going to have to be equipped with a lot more than eight connectors going forward. The low emissions zone in Glasgow is being enforced in ten days. More and more people are buying EVs, and people are going to want to leave them on type 2 chargers when they go shopping, to meetings, to the theatre, out for a meal and so on. They're not going to want to rush back in the middle to disconnect their car. Provision of this sort of service is going to do a lot to attract more people into EV ownership as the word spreads about how convenient it is.

The response to the situation where the existing chargers are reaching full capacity (which is nowhere near the case at present) shouldn't be to impose a time limit, it should be to install more chargers. Sell more electricity! Enable motorists to comply with that low CO2 limit by providing them with the necessary infrastructure.

 

[smokie]

You think they're at full occupancy some time I never checked?

It's possible.

Nearly 900 posts in a month and a half and all on the same subject. Sheesh

 

[Rolfe]

The subject of buying and running a new MG4? Whoda thunkit.

<checks app> Two of eight connectors charging.

If they are reaching capacity, they need more chargers. The reason they haven't put in any more is that they aren't needed. Neither is that punitive overstay fee.

 

[macd2401]

Regarding Glasgow CC, let's be honest. They don't want any cars in the city, EV or otherwise.

 

[Rolfe]

Sometimes I think they don't want any people in the city either. It would make their job so much easier.