ECM, PEU, TCM Update

[ttu]

Well, the MG 3 handles this better. The assist screen has its own dedicated section of the display.

 

[Noel]

Noel, what I wrote comes from my own experience and observations. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that this function hasn’t been described in the manual. I’ve been thinking that MG loses a lot by not including many things in the user manual. Many of the questions asked here or on other forums could have been avoided if these topics were properly covered in a well-written manual.

Many MG users currently drive or used to drive much older, less equipped cars, and for them, a clear and detailed manual would be very helpful. Personally, I also own another well-equipped car, and I don’t need to dive into the manual because all those features are present in other modern cars too (sometimes implemented better, sometimes worse than in MG).

I hope that MG will show willingness and initiative to significantly improve the user experience by releasing further updates and a more comprehensive manu
al.



Well, you simply have to drive in a way that avoids crossing the line (just kidding ). Of course, it would be better if users were given the option to choose whether they want the screen to return to the default view. However, I assume this decision was driven by safety concerns, both due to legal requirements and a certain overzealousness on the part of car/device manufacturers — for example, speed limit alerts, lane keeping assist, or seatbelt warnings.

Hi Diwalt.
Regarding the MG ZS Hybrid+ manual. It is without doubt the worst manual I ever come across. At the risk of repetition, it appears that the manual is a direct translation from Chinese to English, possibly a product of AI, if not, it must’ve been transcribed by somebody with absolutely no knowledge of cars. It tries to combine manuals for at least two vehicles. Some pages display a graphic and text, the problem is that the text relating to the graphic is on the next page. Amazingly the entire section concerning the Navigation System is missing.
My ZS is at the dealership today, to have the light strip on the near side door ring mirror replaced, mine has water in it.
There is also a recall, to update various software.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the updates result in a positive outcome, and that a Graphic Equaliser will appear
Cheers Noel.

 

[diwat123]

Hi Diwalt.
Regarding the MG ZS Hybrid+ manual. It is without doubt the worst manual I ever come across. At the risk of repetition, it appears that the manual is a direct translation from Chinese to English, possibly a product of AI, if not, it must’ve been transcribed by somebody with absolutely no knowledge of cars. It tries to combine manuals for at least two vehicles. Some pages display a graphic and text, the problem is that the text relating to the graphic is on the next page. Amazingly the entire section concerning the Navigation System is missing.
My ZS is at the dealership today, to have the light strip on the near side door ring mirror replaced, mine has water in it.
There is also a recall, to update various software.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the updates result in a positive outcome, and that a Graphic Equaliser will appear
Cheers Noel.

Hi Noel,
I’m keeping my fingers crossed as well! Hopefully the software update brings some good surprises (equalizer...). Let us know how it all goes once you get the car back.

 

[Stephen L]

Hi Diwalt.
Regarding the MG ZS Hybrid+ manual. It is without doubt the worst manual I ever come across. At the risk of repetition, it appears that the manual is a direct translation from Chinese to English, possibly a product of AI, if not, it must’ve been transcribed by somebody with absolutely no knowledge of cars. It tries to combine manuals for at least two vehicles. Some pages display a graphic and text, the problem is that the text relating to the graphic is on the next page. Amazingly the entire section concerning the Navigation System is missing.
My ZS is at the dealership today, to have the light strip on the near side door ring mirror replaced, mine has water in it.
There is also a recall, to update various software.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the updates result in a positive outcome, and that a Graphic Equaliser will appear
Cheers Noel.

My car was only picked up last week and doesn’t have GE

Be interesting to see if your entertainment s/w ends up different to mine

 

[Noel]

Well, that was interesting. Took care of to dealership, they provided me with a ZS EV, interesting, but I can honestly say I prefer my ZS Hybrid.
We discussed the updates already mentioned on the group, and I left the technician with a printout of them
I then drove home, 25 miles in the EV, had lunch, and then I got a call regarding the replacement of the light strip on the N/S door mirror. When they opened the box, although the part number on the box was correct, it contained the wrong part!!!
Seven weeks to get it. So back to the dealership, they were very apologetic, and said they had informed the department responsible for placing orders, who had now ordered the correct part.

The technician and I then discussed the updates. He informed me that.
PD033, doesn’t exist.
PD050, completed, but he didn’t know what it did.
PD052, completed, and we already know this relates to the high revs problem.
PD032, already up to date, but he doesn’t know what it does.

None of the above have resulted in the Graphic Equaliser appearing .

So now we wait for another ?? weeks, for another part to appear, and then they will offer a date for it to be fitted, and by then it will be summer and the moisture will have disappeared.

In addition the technician informed me that MG hadn’t provided any courses, or information, regarding updating software, or general information.

I must say the dealership were very apologetic, I commented that I didn’t hold them to blame, and that said MG UK were the ones responsible for the lack of competence, and the balls up’s.

Cheers Noel.

 

[Nico]

Some interesting news for those of us still concerned with the over-revving issue.
I really enjoy the car but It's got to the point where I'm convinced there is a serious, intermittent, fault causing the over-revving. Not necessarily with every MG ZS Hybrid but certainly with mine.
I can fly up an incline or drive up with the engine screaming and revs over 4000+.
I can overtake with ease or over-rev on pulling out, lift foot off accelerator and lose speed due to regenerative braking, causing issues for anyone behind me.

So, I outlined all the issues to my dealer, sent them the videos, and invoked the Consumer Rights Act insisting on immediate repair, replacement or refund.

The dealer has responded "We have some news to share with you, we escalated the matter to MG Customer care as is the process with any queries of this nature, they have come back to us to confirm this is not a fault with the vehicle and instead a characteristic of the vehicle particularly when travelling uphill. They have confirmed it is not safety issue or mechanical driveability issue.

They have understood the feedback and taken this onboard and are constantly looking to improve driver experience.

Therefore due to this confirmation from the manufacturer the rejection would not be valid, however we would be happy to consider you part exchanging your vehicle if you did want to swap into another vehicle in the range."

So driving uphill at 4000+ revs for a few minutes is a characteristic and losing power when overtaking is not a safety issue.
Not sure what I should do now. Has anyone ever used the motor ombudsman?

 

[mickel]

Some interesting news for those of us still concerned with the over-revving issue.
I really enjoy the car but It's got to the point where I'm convinced there is a serious, intermittent, fault causing the over-revving. Not necessarily with every MG ZS Hybrid but certainly with mine.
I can fly up an incline or drive up with the engine screaming and revs over 4000+.
I can overtake with ease or over-rev on pulling out, lift foot off accelerator and lose speed due to regenerative braking, causing issues for anyone behind me.

So, I outlined all the issues to my dealer, sent them the videos, and invoked the Consumer Rights Act insisting on immediate repair, replacement or refund.

The dealer has responded "We have some news to share with you, we escalated the matter to MG Customer care as is the process with any queries of this nature, they have come back to us to confirm this is not a fault with the vehicle and instead a characteristic of the vehicle particularly when travelling uphill. They have confirmed it is not safety issue or mechanical driveability issue.

They have understood the feedback and taken this onboard and are constantly looking to improve driver experience.

Therefore due to this confirmation from the manufacturer the rejection would not be valid, however we would be happy to consider you part exchanging your vehicle if you did want to swap into another vehicle in the range."

So driving uphill at 4000+ revs for a few minutes is a characteristic and losing power when overtaking is not a safety issue.
Not sure what I should do now. Has anyone ever used the motor ombudsman?

If your videos clearly show high revs going up hill that remain high for long periods of time… if they show high revs that remain high when the car is not on a steep incline… if they show a decrease in acceleration (certainly the most worrying and shouldn’t be a characteristic of any car)….. then I’d email this information to every consumer champion / journalist you can think of. However…. I would say they will only take up the story if they see clear evidence of the car loosing power while overtaking. I doubt the high revs alone will spark enough interest. But if you can clearly demonstrate the car de accelerating when you’re trying to overtake….. then that’s definitely a newsworthy story. As would be a defective car ploughing into a 30 tonne truck because it lost power while overtaking.

 

[Nico]

Thanks Mickel.
The videos are on this thread somewhere showing the constant over-revving uphill. One of them also shows a time where I had no acceleration and was overtaken by a transit and trailer.
The overtaking issue has happened twice but I cannot video all the time. My wife has to lean over and video the dashboard.
On the overtaking I may have misled you slightly.
Imagine driving uphill on a two lane motorway and you move out to overtake a van doing 65mph. As your passing at 70mph the car revs from 2000 to 5000. When the car revs this much any acceleration is obviously lost. Normal reaction is to lift the accelerator to settle the revs. But with the incline and the active brake regeneration the car will slow significantly. Thus you cannot overtake and you may have backed up a queue of cars behind you.
Then consider the same thing happening on a windy A road where your side by side with the car your trying to overtake and acceleration is lost.
Both occasions have happened to me and I found them pretty scary and dangerous.

 

[mickel]

Thanks Mickel.
The videos are on this thread somewhere showing the constant over-revving uphill. One of them also shows a time where I had no acceleration and was overtaken by a transit and trailer.
The overtaking issue has happened twice but I cannot video all the time. My wife has to lean over and video the dashboard.
On the overtaking I may have misled you slightly.
Imagine driving uphill on a two lane motorway and you move out to overtake a van doing 65mph. As your passing at 70mph the car revs from 2000 to 5000. When the car revs this much any acceleration is obviously lost. Normal reaction is to lift the accelerator to settle the revs. But with the incline and the active brake regeneration the car will slow significantly. Thus you cannot overtake and you may have backed up a queue of cars behind you.
Then consider the same thing happening on a windy A road where your side by side with the car your trying to overtake and acceleration is lost.
Both occasions have happened to me and I found them pretty scary and dangerous.

To be honest, the higher revs doesn’t concern me to much. The Kona Hybrid hit higher revs if you were accelerating fairly rapidly. Most cars do. It’s the loss of acceleration you mention that concerns me. High revs shouldn’t cause loss in acceleration. The Kona maybe hit 4000 - 4500 when flooring it…. but that would be accompanied by rapid increase in speed. Then once you’ve accelerated up to speed it would immediately drop back to 2000ish.
Some of the MG ZS revs stuff I’ve read… (car hitting 3500 - 4500 revs when accelerating) doesn’t seem that unusual to me. However, saying that… I drove an MG ZS and I did think some weird stuff was going on. It hit high revs a few times when I wasn’t really asking much of the car. The engine noise also seemed disproportionate to the high revs. Although revs counter was saying 4500… it sounded more like 6500.
I would encourage you to try and capture the de acceleration….. for me, that’s the real issue.

 

[AlexB1988]

Some interesting news for those of us still concerned with the over-revving issue.
I really enjoy the car but It's got to the point where I'm convinced there is a serious, intermittent, fault causing the over-revving. Not necessarily with every MG ZS Hybrid but certainly with mine.
I can fly up an incline or drive up with the engine screaming and revs over 4000+.
I can overtake with ease or over-rev on pulling out, lift foot off accelerator and lose speed due to regenerative braking, causing issues for anyone behind me.

So, I outlined all the issues to my dealer, sent them the videos, and invoked the Consumer Rights Act insisting on immediate repair, replacement or refund.

The dealer has responded "We have some news to share with you, we escalated the matter to MG Customer care as is the process with any queries of this nature, they have come back to us to confirm this is not a fault with the vehicle and instead a characteristic of the vehicle particularly when travelling uphill. They have confirmed it is not safety issue or mechanical driveability issue.

They have understood the feedback and taken this onboard and are constantly looking to improve driver experience.

Therefore due to this confirmation from the manufacturer the rejection would not be valid, however we would be happy to consider you part exchanging your vehicle if you did want to swap into another vehicle in the range."

So driving uphill at 4000+ revs for a few minutes is a characteristic and losing power when overtaking is not a safety issue.
Not sure what I should do now. Has anyone ever used the motor ombudsman?

Hi Nico

It's was the same from my dealership and they advised I contact the finance company (don't know if you have used one) and they will appoint an independent evaluator. If the evaluator says it is unfit then they will take the car back. Unfortunately all around this time I've had to deal with some other crisis for the past 6 weeks, so I've not been able to risk being without a car.

 

[Nico]

Hi Alex,
Unfortunately, I bought via cash and trade in so no finance involved.
I may fill in the motor ombudsman form and see what additional evidence I require.
Mickel,
Thanks again for your comments and advice. Interesting that the Kona continues to accelerate on high revs. My ZS definitely doesn't - sounds more like it's out of gear.
Think I'll need to strap a dashcam to my forehead and try a few overtakes to capture the evidence you feel is crucial.

 

[AlexB1988]

Strapping a camera isn't a bad idea!

I think if you paid that way strangely it makes it more difficult which is frustrating. Nothing on a credit card even anything towards a deposit? Honestly you do the right thing in not getting credit if you can but the system gives you less protection.

Motor ombudsman sounds the next step.

 

[mickel]

Thanks Mickel.
The videos are on this thread somewhere showing the constant over-revving uphill. One of them also shows a time where I had no acceleration and was overtaken by a transit and trailer.
The overtaking issue has happened twice but I cannot video all the time. My wife has to lean over and video the dashboard.
On the overtaking I may have misled you slightly.
Imagine driving uphill on a two lane motorway and you move out to overtake a van doing 65mph. As your passing at 70mph the car revs from 2000 to 5000. When the car revs this much any acceleration is obviously lost. Normal reaction is to lift the accelerator to settle the revs. But with the incline and the active brake regeneration the car will slow significantly. Thus you cannot overtake and you may have backed up a queue of cars behind you.
Then consider the same thing happening on a windy A road where your side by side with the car your trying to overtake and acceleration is lost.
Both occasions have happened to me and I found them pretty scary and dangerous.

If you don’t mind looking somewhat weird… you could buy a head mounted video camera from Amazon. Think you can get one for as little as £20 these days. Just search head mounted sports camera.

 

[Noel]

Hi Nico.

I think somebody has already mentioned the Consumer Rights Act 2015. “WHICH”provides an easy to understands webpage. Main points are below in italics.
It applies to cars, and although the initial period is for 30 days, you are able to claim for up to six months.
Appreciable concern has been expressed on this forum regarding MG’s lack of progress regarding high revs etc. If a new thread were to be started, entitled Consumer Rights Act 2015, we could discuss how we could employ the Act to make MG take notice, and stop them attempting to get out of their obligations by stating “this is norm, and presents no danger” which they have in another post.
Any observations?
Cheers Noel.

“Your right to a repair or replacement”​

You can state your preference, but the retailer can normally choose whichever would be cheapest or easier for it to do.

If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you can then claim a refund or a price reduction if you wish to keep the product.

Beyond the first 30 days of ownership you're entitled to a full or partial refund instead of a repair or replacement if any of the following are true:

• an attempt at repair or replacement has failed
• the cost of the repair or replacement is disproportionate to the value of the goods or digital content
• a repair or replacement is impossible
• a repair or replacement will cause you significant inconvenience
• the repair or replacement will take an unreasonably long amount of time.

If a repair or replacement is not possible, or the attempt at repair fails, or the first replacement also turns out to be defective, you can reject the goods for a full refund.

If you don't want a refund and still want your product repaired or replaced, you have the right to request that the retailer makes further attempts at a repair or replacement.

If you discover the fault within the first six months of having the product, it is presumed to have been there since the time you took ownership of it - unless the retailer can prove otherwise.

The retailer can't make any deductions from your refund in the first six months following an unsuccessful attempt at repair or replacement.

The only exception to this rule is motor vehicles, where the retailer may make a reasonable reduction for the use you've already had of the vehicle after the first 30 days.”

 

[Nico]

Hi Noel,
Thanks for your post.
As my dealer, having consulted MG Customer Care, has rejected my claim under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I will be referring the matter to the Motor Ombudsman.

I didn't really want to be the first to start this action as I know very little about cars to be honest, but I do know something is wrong with mine.

I haven't downloaded the form yet so I don't fully understand the process or evidence required yet.

I have supporting videos of the over-revving uphill (and could do a lot more) but not of the 2 incidents where over-revving impacted on my ability to overtake and which I consider dangerous.

I have considered Mickel's suggestion of wearing a video headset and film future overtakes but this means putting myself in a potentially dangerous situation in the hope of getting additional video evidence.

There does seems to be a significant number of ZS Hybrid owners, on this forum and the UK Facebook site, with the same issue. Sufficient, to me, to indicate that this is a serious, intermittent, fault/defect that in certain circumstances (overtaking) could lead to collision, injury or worse. I recognise there are a few owners who are adamant there is no fault/defect.
I think a new Consumer Rights Act thread would be useful. Hopefully, a few more owners will take action so I'm not going into battle alone.

 

[Robert1957]

I'm away until Thursday but will actively join in

 

[Noel]

Hi Nico. Im confused, I don’t understand what happened.
You say “As my dealer, having consulted MG Customer Care, has rejected my claim under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I will be referring the matter to the Motor Ombudsman.”
How can your dealer, or MG unilaterally reject your CRA 2015 claim. If this is correct then any company could just reject a claim by saying they reject a claim.
Surely those operating the process would have to accept that the claim wasn’t valid.
I will do a bit more research.
In addition if more of us submit CRA claims then our case will strengthen.
Cheers Noel.

 

[Nico]

Hi Noel,
I'm assuming that they consider my claim under CRA and then, having stated MG's reasons, refuse the claim and thus my rejection of the car. My only redress then is via the independent Motor Ombudsman.

I suppose it's a bit like when a well known bank refused my claim on a mis-sold endowment policy and I had to go to the financial ombudsman (and won).

My dealer further stated in email "...Therefore due to this confirmation from the manufacturer the rejection (of the car) would not be valid, however we would be happy to consider you part exchanging your vehicle if you did want to swap into another vehicle in the range..."

And also
"...Thank you for your email and I understand your disappointment with the response from MG Customer care.

Unfortunately, as you will appreciate, we can only go from the detail and information the manufacturer provide us, the update from what we were told was to improve driver enjoyment rather than acknowledgment of a fault.

As MG have confirmed no fault is present and it is a characteristic of the car we can't authorise a rejection as previously mentioned, however as you are a customer of ours and we never want anyone to be dissatisfied, The price for the vehicle you paid was £***** although as you agree the market value for this car now with an extra owner and a few months along is less than this value, if you were looking to part exchange for a different MG we would be happy to try and recoup as much of this value for you.

I have included MG customer care in our email as you requested and they can confirm the findings we have shared with you."

Hope this makes sense.
Thanks again Noel for your help and advice.

 

[Noel]

Hi Noel,
I'm assuming that they consider my claim under CRA and then, having stated MG's reasons, refuse the claim and thus my rejection of the car. My only redress then is via the independent Motor Ombudsman.

I suppose it's a bit like when a well known bank refused my claim on a mis-sold endowment policy and I had to go to the financial ombudsman (and won).

My dealer further stated in email "...Therefore due to this confirmation from the manufacturer the rejection (of the car) would not be valid, however we would be happy to consider you part exchanging your vehicle if you did want to swap into another vehicle in the range..."

And also
"...Thank you for your email and I understand your disappointment with the response from MG Customer care.

Unfortunately, as you will appreciate, we can only go from the detail and information the manufacturer provide us, the update from what we were told was to improve driver enjoyment rather than acknowledgment of a fault.

As MG have confirmed no fault is present and it is a characteristic of the car we can't authorise a rejection as previously mentioned, however as you are a customer of ours and we never want anyone to be dissatisfied, The price for the vehicle you paid was £***** although as you agree the market value for this car now with an extra owner and a few months along is less than this value, if you were looking to part exchange for a different MG we would be happy to try and recoup as much of this value for you.

I have included MG customer care in our email as you requested and they can confirm the findings we have shared with you."

Hope this makes sense.
Thanks again Noel for your help

 

[Noel]

Hang in there Nico.
I’ve copied the text below, which I posted in another thread, just in case you missed it.

My ZS hybrid went in last Monday for the N/S mirror light strip to be replaced, mine had bad condensation in it. At the same time they said they would be updating any software that needed updating.
After a couple of hours, they rang and informed me that the light strip didn’t fit and I could pick up the car.
They informed me that they had updated PD050 and PD052, and had ordered a new light strip.
On the drive home, 25 miles, there was a marked difference to the car. I have never had the high revving problem, but after the updates 5,000 rpm became the norm. One instance was when negotiating a local hill, it’s not steep. Traffic resulted in my going up it at 35mph, at 5,000, it has never done this before!! And once over the top the high revs continued, slowly reducing to around 2,500.
That evening I had to drive to a meeting around 15 miles away, a lot of it on a dual carriageway. Any attempt to increase speed resulted in an increase in revs.
On the way home I noticed drivers flashing me, the auto dipping lights were not working properly. In the end I had to resort to manual operation.
In the morning I contacted the dealership and they said there was a new update being prepared for the high revs problem, and that they would look into these ‘NEW’ problems, when they had received the correct part for the mirror.

Today I had reason to drive the same route, and the car felt different, the revs were ‘normal’ and the car went into EV mode frequently. When I reached “the hill”, I hung back, and then floored it. The revs went up to around 4K, the car was very responsive, and very quickly got to 65, before we caught up with the car in front.
I’ve seen suggestions recommending disconnecting the 12 V negative terminal for a couple of hours and then reconnecting, following updates. The thought being that during this period the software reconfigures the existing program, I’m just wondering if this occurred, this time.
A couple of weeks ago whilst driving, I attempted to change a couple of settings, which resulted in my not being able to use ApplePlay. On the way home I stopped for petrol, and when I returned to the car everything was working??.
I haven’t driven in the dark since, but I’m keeping my finger crossed that another miracle has occurred, regarding the auto headlights.
Cheer Noel.