Tesla Supercharger Issue MG5 LR

[tlps]

Email from Gary Smart:

“When I arrived in the office on Wednesday the 5 June, I was greeted with two engineers at my desk, who were waiting to discuss this exact scenario with me. They had been approached by a dealership who informed us that they were able to install software directly into the original installed unit within the car without the need to replace EVCC. This was tested and we can confirm that this is now the case. There had been a development and an update from the factory, which we were previously unaware of in the UK.

To summarise this, you are correct, and on some models, we do now have a direct update available. Something that was not the case when we launched the original bulletin to the dealer network.

We will be in the process of communicating this to the network shortly, however, I wanted to return my email and thank you for bringing this to my attention. I do want to apologise, but also state that I was unaware of this development at the time of my email.”

He goes on to state that the software will still be classed by MG UK as an enhancement and therefore up to individual dealerships how they charge for this. I expect we’ll find some will do it FOC with a service and others may charge - especially if done as a stand alone update.

 

[Tonych]

Tesla Supercharger Issue (MG5 EV) I signed up to the £10.99 subscription yesterday, I had used a supercharger successfully in Banbury (June 22) while the Osprey ones were faulty. It seems Tesla one of the cheapest chargers at the moment, so went for the subscription as I have a regular commute. Tried 4 different points in Banbury today without success, trying multiple times on each station. Ended up using some Bonnet credit in the end to get me home. I was passing Flint mountain Tesla superchargers so tried multiple times in 2 stations. The error I always received was "no car detected plug in to charge" a few times I had to wait a while for the connection to be released. I tried everything I know how to do, it should have just worked. I couldn't find a number to call but I would imagine it would have been of little help. is there anybody who uses these regularly that could offer any guidance?

The only Tesla chargers I ever tried were at Flint Mountain (to charge my Mk1 ZS) - I tried every one and they all failed. I wondered if the poor internet/app connectivity was part of the issue. I haven't tried Tesla since, and don't intend to take a subscription.

 

[dragon2611]

The only Tesla chargers I ever tried were at Flint Mountain (to charge my Mk1 ZS) - I tried everyone and they all failed. I wondered if the poor internet/app connectivity was part of the issue. I havent tried Tesla since, and dont intent to take a subscription

Even without the subscription they are often cheaper than a lot of the other networks.

 

[Grandadgeorgec]

Email from Gary Smart:

“When I arrived in the office on Wednesday the 5 June, I was greeted with two engineers at my desk, who were waiting to discuss this exact scenario with me. They had been approached by a dealership who informed us that they were able to install software directly into the original installed unit within the car without the need to replace EVCC. This was tested and we can confirm that this is now the case. There had been a development and an update from the factory, which we were previously unaware of in the UK.

To summarise this, you are correct, and on some models, we do now have a direct update available. Something that was not the case when we launched the original bulletin to the dealer network.

We will be in the process of communicating this to the network shortly, however, I wanted to return my email and thank you for bringing this to my attention. I do want to apologise, but also state that I was unaware of this development at the time of my email.”

He goes on to state that the software will still be classed by MG UK as an enhancement and therefore up to individual dealerships how they charge for this. I expect we’ll find some will do it FOC with a service and others may charge - especially if done as a stand alone update.

Just received this reply from Mr Gary Smart regarding my MG5 SE Facelift 2023. I emailed him as my car does not work with Tesla Open network and Toomey at Basildon in Essex require payment to undertake the software update.

"Dear Mr *********
Thank you for your email.

There is no fault or manufacturing defect with the vehicle, therefore costs are not covered by the vehicles warranty.
As it is a quality enhancement, you would be required to cover the time of the technician whilst it is installed.
It does not repair a fault, it is an enhancement being requested by yourself.
Kind regards
Gary Smart"

Ohh dear its a merry go round.

I will give it a week and try a few dealers to see if any change in policy occurs. ?

 

[tlps]

Just received this reply from Mr Gary Smart regarding my MG5 SE Facelift 2023. I emailed him as my car does not work with Tesla Open network and Toomey at Basildon in Essex require payment to undertake the software update.

"Dear Mr *********
Thank you for your email.

There is no fault or manufacturing defect with the vehicle, therefore costs are not covered by the vehicles warranty.
As it is a quality enhancement, you would be required to cover the time of the technician whilst it is installed.
It does not repair a fault, it is an enhancement being requested by yourself.
Kind regards
Gary Smart"

Ohh dear its a merry go round.

I will give it a week and try a few dealers to see if any change in policy occurs. ?

If you are looking to have it done as a stand alone up date with no other work, then I think most places are charging. If it’s being done at the same time as service then I’d ask them to ensure all firmware is up to date for all ECUs.

 

[Tonych]

Even without the subscription they are often cheaper than a lot of the other networks.

If they work with your car of course....

 

[Pebblefeline]

There are loads of the right modules on eBay and at ev breakers.

from 50-90 quid

I wonder if they can be easily installed……

 

[m4rmite]

There are loads of the right modules on eBay and at ev breakers.

from 50-90 quid

I wonder if they can be easily installed……

I saw them and wondered that. Would the dealer/system know?

 

[Pebblefeline]

I was going to ask my local ev specialist, nothing in the mg seems to be coded to the car.
If they can just be swapped out then win!

 

[MickeySw]

…nothing in the mg seems to be coded to the car.

That may not be entirely the case:

Onboard charger issue, coded replacement part

Dear MG5 EV users, I am using my car as a private hire taxi in London for the past three years, during which it has accumulated 130,000 miles (hence wo warranty anymore). However, over the last five months, I have exclusively relied on rapid (CCS) chargers due to a malfunction in my onboard...

www.mgevs.com

But hopefully the EVCC is not VIN coded.

 

[Pebblefeline]

Yes I saw this and my heart sank slightly

Fingers crossed, maybe a dealer would be willing to code a supplied part, they can obviously code a new part.
Will post anything I find out.

 

[shpub]

Just received this reply from Mr Gary Smart regarding my MG5 SE Facelift 2023. I emailed him as my car does not work with Tesla Open network and Toomey at Basildon in Essex require payment to undertake the software update.
?

As I understood it, all FL cars get the update under warranty. Either your dealer does not understand that and/or Mr Smart does not either. I would try elsewhere. There is also an email in this thread posted by Les Burrows from Miles Roberts of Chorley MG that confirms this. Again use that as a big club. You could also pay for it and then go to the small claims court and get it back again plus inconvenience, costs etc.

The problem is the variety of mixed messages that have been coming out. Out of 5 dealers I have talked to: 1 denied it existed, 1 said he thought it was about £100, 1 said it is free as it a warranty issue, 1 said yes but the EVCC would need changing and another cut me off before I got to the service department!

I saw them and wondered that. Would the dealer/system know?

The thought had crossed my mind but when I thought about the potential risks it put me off. The curious me still wonders though...

The diagnostic tools report the internal ECU serial numbers so it displays it had been changed and thus the questions start a coming. Who did this? This unit was used on a different car and so on?

Certainly the ability to detect it exists.

Bear in mind that the 7 year warrenty for the battery could be invalidated as the EVCC is part of the charging system. Changing it over might result in damage and simply swapping would also make the assumption that other units might need upgrading as well. Is that worth saving a couple hundred quid?

I'm not totally sure that all the units are vin encoded but they may have interdepencies that effectively locks them into a certain combination of units and software revisions.

Yes I saw this and my heart sank slightly

Fingers crossed, maybe a dealer would be willing to code a supplied part, they can obviously code a new part.
Will post anything I find out.

What version do you have? If its a LR no need to worry.

 

[EVsince2016]

As I understood it, all FL cars get the update under warranty. Either your dealer does not understand that and/or Mr Smart does not either. I would try elsewhere. There is also an email in this thread posted by Les Burrows from Miles Roberts of Chorley MG that confirms this. Again use that as a big club. You could also pay for it and then go to the small claims court and get it back again plus inconvenience, costs etc.

The problem is the variety of mixed messages that have been coming out. Out of 5 dealers I have talked to: 1 denied it existed, 1 said he thought it was about £100, 1 said it is free as it a warranty issue, 1 said yes but the EVCC would need changing and another cut me off before I got to the service department!

The dealers are at an utter loss to understand MGs position on this with multiple conflicting bulletins that they know are incorrect and morally wrong. I knew from this forum far more than my dealer did!

What we do know is that there is a software issue on MG5s that endanger & crash charging units, not only Tesla but others such as Engie and more. This is a vehicle defect that in law is covered by the warranty whatever wiggling, squirming & misinformation MG have put out.

The behaviour from MG over this issue has been a PR disaster. Failing to address the issue from day 1. What MG didn't expect was owners to get organised, work together with dealers, Tesla, EV techs etc to reach a resolution.

What Mr Smart at MG needs to do, is to offer a full apology on behalf of MG UK on their utter failure to deal with this issue. I don't blame Mr Smart, he is just doing his job based on what information he has been given, which was wrong. What happens next is critical.

Mr Smart, if you are reading this, Do the right thing on behalf of MG and restore your reputation.

 

[kevin ellard]

As I understood it, all FL cars get the update under warranty. Either your dealer does not understand that and/or Mr Smart does not either. I would try elsewhere. There is also an email in this thread posted by Les Burrows from Miles Roberts of Chorley MG that confirms this. Again use that as a big club. You could also pay for it and then go to the small claims court and get it back again plus inconvenience, costs etc.

The problem is the variety of mixed messages that have been coming out. Out of 5 dealers I have talked to: 1 denied it existed, 1 said he thought it was about £100, 1 said it is free as it a warranty issue, 1 said yes but the EVCC would need changing and another cut me off before I got to the service department!

It doesn't add much to the conversation but... my FL was not done under warranty but I had a good relationship with the dealer and they did it free of charge while they were doing the first service.

 

[shpub]

What we do know is that there is a software issue on MG5s that endanger & crash charging units, not only Tesla but others such as Engie and more. This is a vehicle defect that in law is covered by the warranty whatever wiggling, squirming & misinformation MG have put out.

Actually we don't know that. The situation is not as straightforward. Mgs worked when Tesla first opened the superchargers despite the fact that when they were designed/built, Tesla was not open and didn't even support CCS. Non Tesla manufacturers did not even consider them. When Tesla opened up, they started supporting CCS. Tesla then upgraded their chargers and MGs stopped working and blamed MG for not being compatible. There were at the time other "Tesla" issues with other manufacturers.

As for Engie.... ASDA rapid chargers are supplied by Engie and I don't see complaints about them in the forums. The problem appears to be associated with the Eurotunnel versions. They may be old units that cannot be upgraded to fix issues or the operator has declined a maintenance program. We don't know but this situation is accepted as MG have a problem with Engie chargers that they won't fix. The reality is that MGs have an issue with Eurotunnel Engie chargers that doesn't appear with the hundreds of Engie chargers at ASDA. Does this mean that MG has to update the car to fix every charger that has a problem or doesn't meet the standards?

Add to this that many MG charger faults are nothing to do with the CCS charging itself but other factors such as payment issues which get reported to the user as a car fault giving the wrong impression that the car is not meeting the standard etc etc. Again angry owners insisting that it is an MG fault. I couldn't charge at an Osprey unit because of a card issue yet it reported to me that the car had unexpectedly disconnected! Hey MG your software is crap! Can't even charge at a new Osprey unit. Problem was the card operator requesting a PIN validation check which the Osprey charger could not do as it did not have an insertion slot! It was the charger that had disconnected! It was the charger telling me it was the car's fault. The charger should have known about this so why couldn't a more accurate error "payment error" be displayed. Whose fault is that? Would you expect MG to fix it? Is it an MG defect? It would be tough to prove that in court.

This doesn't excuse MGs ever changing position/ behaviour on the update issue but equally it is always good to place yourself on the other side to see if the situation is different.

 

[Gomev]

..When Tesla opened up, they started supporting CCS. Tesla then upgraded their chargers and MGs stopped working and blamed MG for not being compatible. ...

Tesla added CCS to their chargers in Europe/UK before they opened up to other makes.

 

[shpub]

Tesla added CCS to their chargers in Europe/UK before they opened up to other makes.

Yes they did. Or to be more accurate a CCS Type 2 plug made an appearance. They certainly added a CCS connector but it isn't clear if they actually used the CCS standard to implement the comms. The circuit diagrams for the cars at the time show some pretty weird goings on in the charger control area, indicating that the CCS standard comms was being replaced by the Tesla comms in the supercharger link to a Tesla car.

IIRC it was forced on Tesla by the EU over concerns over the robustness of the Tesla connector.

Tesla owners with the older proprietary plug had to buy the adapter (Magic Dock) to use the non Tesla and Tesla CCS standard chargers. That sounds familiar doesn't it. Software updates... Buying hardware adapters... Well this post indicates that US Tesla owners were just as confused...

"Yes, but you did NOT understand my post. On those with Magic Dock, but when the Magic Dock is NOT used, we can still use our own SC to CCS adapter, and it will work fine for CCS on ANY non-Tesla, such as Chevy EVs or Energica motorcycles.

Those V3 and V4 chargers that do NOT have Magic Dock available will only work with Ford & Rivian (with these cars needing a SW update to work), but will NOT work at all with Chevy or others even if you bring your own Tesla SC to CCS adapter.

This proves a difference between the V3 Superchargers that have the Magic Dock available and those which do NOT in BOTH chargers when NO Magic Dock is used with either.

IOW, the difference is MORE than the Magic Dock. The difference is in the chargers that have it available and those which do not.

IOW, do NOT use the Magic Dock, bring your own adapter instead and it will still work, unlike the chargers that do NOT have the Magic Dock of the same version 3 Supercharger.

IOW, I was curious what is different in the Tesla Superchargers themselves between those which have the Magic Dock available and those that do not.

FWIW, I have used the Magic Dock (Placerville, CA) so I know about the adapter that comes out when charging a non-Tesla."

This probably explains why Tesla blamed MG... It appears to be a lot easier.

Further reading:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/new-sources-of-tesla-oem-tesla-like-and-or-third-party-ccs1-adapters.276848/

If you want to delve into the inner workings of how Tesla Superchargers work, or can't get to sleep... here are two very good articles:

EV-Pluribus Unum: An Introduction to the SAE J3400/NACS EV Charging Interface (Part 1)

The EV charging wars appear to be over thanks to SAE's standardization of Tesla's NACS charging interface. But do any differences exist between the NACS and SAE J3400 standards...

www.electronicdesign.com

EV-Pluribus Unum: Protocols and Transition Challenges of the NACS/SAE J3400 EV Charging Interface (Part 2)

Explore the protocols and challenges of the NACS/SAE J3400 EV charging interface in Part 2 of our series. Learn about safety measures, adoption hurdles, and prospects.

www.electronicdesign.com

 

[Pebblefeline]

As I understood it, all FL cars get the update under warranty. Either your dealer does not understand that and/or Mr Smart does not either. I would try elsewhere. There is also an email in this thread posted by Les Burrows from Miles Roberts of Chorley MG that confirms this. Again use that as a big club. You could also pay for it and then go to the small claims court and get it back again plus inconvenience, costs etc.

The problem is the variety of mixed messages that have been coming out. Out of 5 dealers I have talked to: 1 denied it existed, 1 said he thought it was about £100, 1 said it is free as it a warranty issue, 1 said yes but the EVCC would need changing and another cut me off before I got to the service department!


The thought had crossed my mind but when I thought about the potential risks it put me off. The curious me still wonders though...

The diagnostic tools report the internal ECU serial numbers so it displays it had been changed and thus the questions start a coming. Who did this? This unit was used on a different car and so on?

Certainly the ability to detect it exists.

Bear in mind that the 7 year warrenty for the battery could be invalidated as the EVCC is part of the charging system. Changing it over might result in damage and simply swapping would also make the assumption that other units might need upgrading as well. Is that worth saving a couple hundred quid?

I'm not totally sure that all the units are vin encoded but they may have interdepencies that effectively locks them into a certain combination of units and software revisions.


What version do you have? If its a LR no need to worry.

I have a lr but the evcc is just below the green list posted in this forum.
So may or may not be comaptable
Car from October 21

 

[Verdigris]

I have a lr but the evcc is just below the green list posted in this forum.
So may or may not be comaptable
Car from October 21

I'm in that column, too. I'll find out for sure, in a couple of weeks, when it goes in for a service.

 

[shpub]

Pebblefine, Verdigris

When you get the upgrade please let me know y/n on the success and the EVCC build number and date and then I can update that list for the benefit of others. If you have the eZS app and an OBD2 dongle, you can get the EVCC software revision numbers. If they are in the green spot that is good.

The more info we can get the better.