What do you think will be standard range in 5 years time

[Cocijo]

I have got my long range and i am charging almost every day with a commute of 50 miles to work so 100 daily finding the car more expensive than advertised obviously cheaper than a diesel still but the showroom did quote a lot cheaper than I'm getting, also only getting 220 miles 100% charge instead of 276 miles. Anyone else finding this or just me?

If you public charge (especially rapid) the difference to fill between EV and an economical ICE is minimal (sometimes it can be dearer for the EV). If you home charge it is much cheaper, especially if you can get cheap off peak rates. 220ish miles in cold weather sounds about right. The key numbers to check are what you are getting in miles/kWh, and your average speed for the journey.

 

[Lovemyev]

Manufactures of EV’s know that battery degradation is fairly high initially, and then should level out, so in order not to set the new owner into state of blind panic, they do try to hide this early increased loss in the top buffer of the battery.
This is a known practice operated by all EV manufacturers.
I guess it depends how large they decide to set this buffer, before the owner then spots any further loss, in reported range after charging as the cars ages.
Regarding battery degradation on the original ZS EV a lot of brilliant data was collected and compiled by @JodyS21.
This all started when some of the original Gen1 models were infected by a software bug that entered the system, while carrying out software updates, that some where included in the Comfort 2 and BMS updates.
Is a LONG but very informative read, that can be found with a quick search ? above.
It also includes a lot of facts and figures from data sent in from owners of the forum, that strongly suggests that battery degradation is evident ( as you would expect ) and it plots some vehicles that has covered very few miles and never D/C rapid charged.
To vehicles that have covered a LOT of miles and some owners have conducted regular D/C rapid charges.
Maybe as you would expect ( or not ) levels of degradation are higher on vehicles that have conducted a LOT more charging cycles as they naturally age with time.
It therefore should come as no surprise that the figures clearly show, that the lower mileage cars that are now likely to be 2 - 3 year old by now are less affected.
When their packs are interrogated via OBD port, the degradation is naturally very low.
Depending on usage / charge sessions the SOH can still be as high as 100% or maybe slightly lower.
No so, for cars that have covered more miles and charged more often of course.
Battery degradation has to be an accepted fact when you purchase an EV !.
Some other EV’s tend to report battery degradation at a slower or even a faster rate than others.
It could be down to the quality of the packs, or even that some manufacturers are better at hiding the losses !.
If this proves anything useful at all, then I would strongly advice anybody who is considering an EV to first consider if your present and future usage pattern, can actually be satisfied by the pack size in the winter period and then ( if you intended to keep the car for a few years ) then build in some capacity for future degradation, or be prepared to be stopping to charge more often.
As we know, the charging infrastructure vs the amount of EV’s being sold is a losing battle right now unfortunately.
Charging on the go can even match ( or be more expensive ) than the price of fossil fuel ️ right now.
Therefore a larger battery pack means you are less reliant on the public charging network etc.
If you can charge from home, then for the moment, you are fairly well protected.
Increased EV prices and long wait times on EV’s and very expensive charging costs on the move, plus the removal of any grants and the inclusion of VED on the way, clearly demonstrates to me, that the “honeymoon” period for EV’s is clearly over.
The fast take up and increased popularity of EV’s in the last few years have seen the necessity to help subsidise there adoption is a thing of the past.
EV sales in December actual beat sales of petrol models for the first time !.
Only by a very very small percentage, but this gives you an idea of the scale of the situation.

 

[steve1973]

Thats strange

Are you charging at home on cheap rates?

I'm charging at work only at the moment as 19p per KwH plus VAT. normal rate at home so only using in emergencies.

 

[Gadget Geek]

also only getting 220 miles 100% charge instead of 276 miles. Anyone else finding this or just me?

Normal for winter. When the temperature rises, so will the range.

 

[steve1973]

Normal for winter. When the temperature rises, so will the range.

As its not that cold at the moment any idea what the range was in the weeks we had minus numbers?

 

[Cocijo]

I'm charging at work only at the moment as 19p per KwH plus VAT. normal rate at home so only using in emergencies.

19p is not that bad. I think day rate is capped at around 34p and the cheapest off peak currently available is around 10p - unless you’re on an existing fixed contract. Do you get 19p flat rate across all usage at home? Who’s your provider ? Or have I misunderstood?

 

[steve1973]

19p is not that bad. I think day rate is capped at around 34p and the cheapest off peak currently available is around 10p - unless you’re on an existing fixed contract. Do you get 19p flat rate across all usage at home? Who’s your provider ? Or have I misunderstood?

Sorry yes that at my work. Home is standard 34p stuck with it at present.

 

[Maciej]

Issue with off peak rate is that it makes peak rate more so your entire household needs to adjust to life around your care. This is a big change to expect. Anyway car is more expansive than ev advocates like to make. I was promised super cheap service, service is more than my old diseal, electricy went up making it more expansive and fast chargers are at rate that compares to driving petrol.

I love my car but definitely EV no longer saves you money and is more hassle than EV fans make it out to be but also less hassle than some petrol heads imagine it is

 

[Cocijo]

Sorry yes that at my work. Home is standard 34p stuck with it at present.

I see - sorry, I misunderstood. I thought that I was on to something! 19p is pretty good - you see significant savings compared to ice.

Issue with off peak rate is that it makes peak rate more so your entire household needs to adjust to life around your care. This is a big change to expect. Anyway car is more expansive than ev advocates like to make. I was promised super cheap service, service is more than my old diseal, electricy went up making it more expansive and fast chargers are at rate that compares to driving petrol.

I love my car but definitely EV no longer saves you money and is more hassle than EV fans make it out to be but also less hassle than some petrol heads imagine it is

I agree. EV service costs and frequency is a disgrace and should be investigated - a complete rip-ff attempted to prevent lost revenue compared to ICE. Rapid charger rates are also disgracefu, but there are a few mitigating circumstances. All round EV ownership whilst it has it’s benefits and can be enjoyable is not what it was made out to be when first encouraged.

 

[Lovemyev]

As it’s not that cold at the moment any idea what the range was in the weeks we had minus numbers?

It’s a bit of an obsession of mine, as some members will know ( sad I know ) to keep an eye what is happening, regarding stats on my car after each charge ( it’s long story ).
But I can offer you some idea on how my car has behaved over the recent cold weather snap.
At least you will have a bit of a yard stick comparison to go by then for your car ?.
You could ask the same question to 6 different owners and get 6 different answers because of many factors at work here.
If you trying to get a back to back comparison, then I will outline how my info is arrived at.
Some facts first, we have a ZS EV LR and collected it mid March 2022.
It has now covered 8,500 miles.
The car is charged exclusively from our home 7Kw wall box, no D/C rapid chargers have ever been used.
I have my SOC charging level set to 80% I have only charged once to 90% and 100% on one other occasion.
Charging to 80% is my “Go To” charging level.
Charging to 80% has returned a constant predicted range of between 211 - 212 miles from day one, until the temperatures started drop substantially.
Before you panic ? about your range, you have to understand how these figures have arrived at FIRST before you compare them !.
This is important, before you intend to carry out your next charging session, carry out these actions.
Ensure you have turn OFF all 12 volt electrical items, especially check the HVAC is turned completely OFF - This is vitally important !.
Now set your charging percentage to 80%.
Reset BOTH of your trip counter back to zero.
Place the car on charge and the following morning, either open the App and refresh it doing an health status check first.
Now, what is your predicted range ?.
I bet it is close to the figures above ?.
If the App is playing up, then when you boot up the car, you should be seeing close to the figures I have quoted above !.
There WILL be a difference in this predicted range IF the ambient temperature is low and the car is not garaged of course.
Over the last few weeks, it has been really cold in Wales.
For over a week the temperature was hoovering around -3 to -6 degrees.
The reported range under these identical set up conditions reproduced above, was indicating at a predicted range of as low as 199 miles at one point.
So, we see a loss of our predicted range of 12 miles from the GOM - Why ?.
Ambient temperature is the only factor that has changed, unless you are pointing the finger of battery degradation of course !.
I will continue to monitor this after each and every charge and paying close attention to the predicted range that SHOULD increase back up to close on 211 miles as the weather improves.
Why do I bother doing this you may ask !.
Well because I had the same question(s) as you when we owned our original ZS EV which returned some interesting results, let’s just say !.
You need a solid base line figure to base you facts and findings on.
I hope this of some help ?.

 

[steve1973]

It’s a bit of an obsession of mine, as some members will know ( sad I know ) to keep an eye what is happening, regarding stats on my car after each charge ( it’s long story ).
But I can offer you some idea on how my car has behaved over the recent cold weather snap.
At least you will have a bit of a yard stick comparison to go by then for your car ?.
You could ask the same question to 6 different owners and get 6 different answers because of many factors at work here.
If you trying to get a back to back comparison, then I will outline how my info is arrived at.
Some facts first, we have a ZS EV LR and collected it mid March 2022.
It has now covered 8,500 miles.
The car is charged exclusively from our home 7Kw wall box, no D/C rapid chargers have ever been used.
I have my SOC charging level set to 80% I have only charged once to 90% and 100% on one other occasion.
Charging to 80% is my “Go To” charging level.
Charging to 80% has returned a constant predicted range of between 211 - 212 miles from day one, until the temperatures started drop substantially.
Before you panic ? about your range, you have to understand how these figures have arrived at FIRST before you compare them !.
This is important, before you intend to carry out your next charging session, carry out these actions.
Ensure you have turn OFF all 12 volt electrical items, especially check the HVAC is turned completely OFF - This is vitally important !.
Now set your charging percentage to 80%.
Reset BOTH of your trip counter back to zero.
Place the car on charge and the following morning, either open the App and refresh it doing an health status check first.
Now, what is your predicted range ?.
I bet it is close to the figures above ?.
If the App is playing up, then when you boot up the car, you should be seeing close to the figures I have quoted above !.
There WILL be a difference in this predicted range IF the ambient temperature is low and the car is not garaged of course.
Over the last few weeks, it has been really cold in Wales.
For over a week the temperature was hoovering around -3 to -6 degrees.
The reported range under these identical set up conditions reproduced above, was indicating at a predicted range of as low as 199 miles at one point.
So, we see a loss of our predicted range of 12 miles from the GOM - Why ?.
Ambient temperature is the only factor that has changed, unless you are pointing the finger of battery degradation of course !.
I will continue to monitor this after each and every charge and paying close attention to the predicted range that SHOULD increase back up to close on 211 miles as the weather improves.
Why do I bother doing this you may ask !.
Well because I had the same question(s) as you when we owned our original ZS EV which returned some interesting results, let’s just say !.
You need a solid base line figure to base you facts and findings on.
I hope this of some help ?.

Now after this useful info i have another question where do i go to for trip information as not found it yet might save me some time.

 

[N2STY]

Look at dash then press left arrow (on steering wheel) once it takes you to trip page the 1st one is current trip to reset press and hold ok if you press the down arrow you get all trips since last reset again press and hold ok if you'd like to reset

 

[Lovemyev]

Now after this useful info i have another question where do i go to for trip information as not found it yet might save me some time.

If you have not reset your trips in a while, you should see your range increase as soon as you press the OKAY button that @N2STY had kindly pointed out.
P.S. - The car needs to be in ready mode of course !.

 

[Gadget Geek]

If you have not reset your trips in a while, you should see your range increase as soon as you press the OKAY button that @N2STY had kindly pointed out.
P.S. - The car needs to be in ready mode of course !.

Only the predicted range will increase. The actual range you get still relies on weather, topography, speed, and driving style.

 

[Striker]

It’s a bit of an obsession of mine, as some members will know ( sad I know ) to keep an eye what is happening, regarding stats on my car after each charge ( it’s long story ).
But I can offer you some idea on how my car has behaved over the recent cold weather snap.
At least you will have a bit of a yard stick comparison to go by then for your car ?.
You could ask the same question to 6 different owners and get 6 different answers because of many factors at work here.
If you trying to get a back to back comparison, then I will outline how my info is arrived at.
Some facts first, we have a ZS EV LR and collected it mid March 2022.
It has now covered 8,500 miles.
The car is charged exclusively from our home 7Kw wall box, no D/C rapid chargers have ever been used.
I have my SOC charging level set to 80% I have only charged once to 90% and 100% on one other occasion.
Charging to 80% is my “Go To” charging level.
Charging to 80% has returned a constant predicted range of between 211 - 212 miles from day one, until the temperatures started drop substantially.
Before you panic ? about your range, you have to understand how these figures have arrived at FIRST before you compare them !.
This is important, before you intend to carry out your next charging session, carry out these actions.
Ensure you have turn OFF all 12 volt electrical items, especially check the HVAC is turned completely OFF - This is vitally important !.
Now set your charging percentage to 80%.
Reset BOTH of your trip counter back to zero.
Place the car on charge and the following morning, either open the App and refresh it doing an health status check first.
Now, what is your predicted range ?.
I bet it is close to the figures above ?.
If the App is playing up, then when you boot up the car, you should be seeing close to the figures I have quoted above !.
There WILL be a difference in this predicted range IF the ambient temperature is low and the car is not garaged of course.
Over the last few weeks, it has been really cold in Wales.
For over a week the temperature was hoovering around -3 to -6 degrees.
The reported range under these identical set up conditions reproduced above, was indicating at a predicted range of as low as 199 miles at one point.
So, we see a loss of our predicted range of 12 miles from the GOM - Why ?.
Ambient temperature is the only factor that has changed, unless you are pointing the finger of battery degradation of course !.
I will continue to monitor this after each and every charge and paying close attention to the predicted range that SHOULD increase back up to close on 211 miles as the weather improves.
Why do I bother doing this you may ask !.
Well because I had the same question(s) as you when we owned our original ZS EV which returned some interesting results, let’s just say !.
You need a solid base line figure to base you facts and findings on.
I hope this of some help ?.

Lovemyev, I understand your method of resetting your trip before each charge, I know not everyone agrees with the process. I was just wondering if you could get the same results and a little more info if you charged, recorded the GOM then reset and recorded the new GOM
With the logic, that this way, the first reading would be the GOM based on your driving during the previous cycle since charging, the second GOM should give the value that you are used to
ie "Real" (estimated) range and Range of the battery in ideal conditions

 

[Tim Green]

I have a gen1 and I just charge it full whenever I feel like it. I have now done about 17000 miles in 3 years and it will always show 165 miles range after full charge.

 

[hmadsen]

Only problem is that the way they have doubled range right now is mainly by sticking more batteries for a larger total weight in the cars, because the battery cell's got cheaper.

It is not really a viable solution to keep doubling the battery capacity by just doubling the weight and of the battery pack.

What is needed, is battery technologies where you have a higher energy density.

If you could double the energy density in a battery pack of a given weight and size, you would effectively "double" the range.

If you add another 500 kilo of batteries, you need more structural iron, larger brakes, etc, making the car considerably heavier, and this would mean that with double the capacity, you would not make the cars go double the distance.

 

[Lovemyev]

Only the predicted range will increase. The actual range you get still relies on weather, topography, speed, and driving style.

I know and understand totally, why other members disagree with this method of resetting the trips before every single charge / trip.
But keep in mind, that any predicted range on the GOM is just that, predicted / guess !.
I have explained at some length and detail why ( in my mind at least ) I have a really good reason for following this process.
This LONG story covered on other threads, dates back to issues on our original ZS EV Gen 1.
But let's keep firmly away from that extremely stressful experience.
I told myself that I did not want to go down that dark path with our new ZS EV LR model ( there is a bit of a clue in the letters LR - LONG RANGE ).
But in the case of @steve1973 and other new EV members ( I including my own brother here ) they sometimes struggle getting to grips with the fact that they are conducting the same journey day in, day out and after a charge, the predicted range is continuing to drop & drop from what they seen in the first few weeks of ownership, or what the sales person may have told them.
Both you and I, fully understand what is happening here, but the fact that @steve1973 ( and others on here ) have taken the time to posts on the forum in the first place, suggests to me that they are worried that there is something seriously wrong going on with their pride and joy.
Have you noticed that this question very rarely gets brought up in the summer months - I wonder why ?.
I only made the suggestion that Steve should TRY resets his trips, in the hope it would reveal the factory predicted WLTP figure, suggested by MG ( i.e. 80% SOC - 210 ish miles - 100% SOC - 273 ish miles of range ).
This is no magic cure, but could be seen as a relief when suddenly his "collection day range" has returned to the GOM - PHEW !.
As more trips are added in the winter months, this figure will start to reduce again, but NOW Steve is starting to understand of why.
A debate for another day, is the how the affects of resetting the trips on the predicted range on the GOM in the summer time, is different from the winter time.

 

[Lovemyev]

I have a gen1 and I just charge it full whenever I feel like it. I have now done about 17000 miles in 3 years and it will always show 165 miles range after full charge.

That is fantastic !.
But sadly and unfortunately, that can not be said for everybody.
Do you know what software your car is running on, is it on the original factory supplied software or the updated BMS update software ?.
Has you car received any software updates from new ( Comfort 2 update etc ).

 

[DB Go Rex]

IDK, we seem to be going backwards in some respects; latest cars have bigger and bigger batteries for not much more range.

Until battery tech means lighter batteries, focus needs to be more on more efficiency.