Mk 1 - EVCC update to allow Tesla Charging

[Rutsy]

The point about whether MG or Tesla (or some combination) are to blame is a rabbit hole in my view. Most of us are in the position of having bought a car from MG in the reasonable expectation that it could be charged on all available CCS chargers. If the ZSEV MK2 was designed before Tesla were open in the UK you can understand why such functionality was not present at the outset, but to now be asked for additional payment to fix this defect is an insult in my view.

Anyone know what MGs approach to this fix in Europe is? Open Tesla chargers have been available longer and are more prevalent.

 

[shpub]

I would be interested to see sources for your claims in point 2.

It is a topic frequently discussed in the DriveEV , tesla and various opensource EVSE forums. I have a doc somewhere on my computer that went into details. I'll try and find where I put it cos I can't lay my hands on it.

CCS2 is not only a hardware/connector standard but also a handshake/software and electrical standard. If it's CCS2 complaint, it's compliant.

Yes and No. It's about 30 standards as more and more stuff is piled onto it. Compliance testing is a real issue. CharIN do offer testing - their websites have the details etc - but only one charger manufacturer ABB have gone through the basis and that was for the simple basic stuff. There are now 7 level protocol stacks and all sorts of stuff, some of which is required, some is optional. I can be complient at the basic level but not at all levels and therefore not work. It is a mess.

If your claim about them doing something proprietary is correct, then why were all other manufacturers in on at as well? Including MG as it was only the 5 and ZS that didn't work out the box...

Ford, GM, Rivian, Kia, Hyundai all had problems when they tried to use the open Superchargers. GM despite promising for over 15 months still haven't fixed the issues for their CCS cars. See my earlier post. MG were not the only ones to get caught out.

Your final point about MG not providing specific data on the handshake sounds more plausible - but, again, given that all other manufacturers seemed to not have that issue, that again points back to MG doing something deficient on the CCS2 handshake (that other charging providers are less fussy about) not that Tesla were targeting them, or that they had special new features that were only known after the fact of opening the superchargers up.

It is not all other manufacturers as I have pointed out, many times. Rivian and Ford were paid up contracted with Tesla partners yet they got caught out when Tesla opened up. I don't know what comms were going on by Tesla with others but they were talking as Tesla wanted their standard accepted by them for North America. I suspect that MG did not have a special relationship with Tesla and only found out about the issues in the field. They are not members of the CharIN organisation while Tesla and the major manufacturers all are.

Equally it could well be that MG have been adhering to the spec where other did not. Without seeing the comms streams that it difficult to prove one way or the other. All that can be concluded is that it did not work.

The claim that it was only MG that had problems simply is not true.

 

[DB Go Rex]

The claim that it was only MG that had problems simply is not true.

US market aside, which don't even have CCS2, so it's not even a comparison, the only examples I have seen of other manufacturers having issues is Europe/UK are on 700v Kia and Hyundais - and even then it wasn't a failure to connect - that was more about the stability of the charging with drop outs...

I'm just surprised at the willingness to jump to MG's defense given their reputation with software in general is not good.

E.g.

delivering a car that wouldn't rapid charge at all on any charger (mine).

Infotainment system with a terrible English localisation, bad UX design

Safety systems with phantom breaking, random drop outs and laughable lane guidance that borders on dangerous.

 

[fred12345]

I'm just surprised at the willingness to jump to MG's defense given their reputation with software in general is not good.

The problem is, to blame something on MG only, we need to know what is wrong in first place. So far I haven't seen anything to exactly pinpoint the fault and link it to MG only. I'm pretty sure Tesla's got a role in it too, you can't have a car work on all but Tesla chargers and then blame it only on MG...

There is a good article dealing with EV software issues generally, it's not only MG The EV industry faces a core challenge: software bugs

As far as I can see in all the related posts, the further this issue was taken was to ombudsman; until we know who says what, whatever we say in the meantime are only our own subjective views.

 

[shpub]

US market aside, which don't even have CCS2, so it's not even a comparison, the only examples I have seen of other manufacturers having issues is Europe/UK are on 700v Kia and Hyundais - and even then it wasn't a failure to connect - that was more about the stability of the charging with drop outs...

CCS1 in the US is the same basic CCS2 standards with a different plug. Kias have had the connect issue. Hyundais Ioniq5s - see Have any of you been successful charging Ioniq 5 on... with reports of problems in the US and Germany.
The 700v problem is another interesting one - caused by the strange way that Tesla charge share across bays (allegedly). Who fixes that one? Bet it won't be Tesla! The 700v cars don't have that problem on other CCS2 chargers so that raises questions over the Tesla CCS2 "complience" as the standards support it.

I'm just surprised at the willingness to jump to MG's defense given their reputation with software in general is not good.

If your car won't work on any CCS2 charger then that is a very different issue to it doesn't work on a Tesla supercharger. I would not defend MG at all in that case. It needs to be fixed.

I thought you had reported that MG fixed the rapid charging issue and you had charged successfully at open Tesla chargers and others. Can you still charge at other Rapids? If yes then why are you not beating up Tesla as it worked before, they changed something and now it doesn't?

All I am trying to do is explain why this whole issue is not as simple as it is made out to be. This is important because if it goes to any form of legal process, these things will be considered.

 

[fred12345]

All I am trying to do is explain why this whole issue is not as simple as it is made out to be. This is important because if it goes to any form of legal process, these things will be considered.

expert evidence would be expected in support of a claim ...

 

[Rutsy]

expert evidence would be expected in support of a claim ...

One last go at bringing a bit of clarity to this.

The cause of the cars not charging is completely irrelevant to the obligations of MG as a supplier of the vehicle and our rights as customer.

If MG believe Tesla is (partly) to blame, then it is free to pursue this with Tesla.

 

[shpub]

One last go at bringing a bit of clarity to this.

The cause of the cars not charging is completely irrelevant to the obligations of MG as a supplier of the vehicle and our rights as customer.

If MG believe Tesla is (partly) to blame, then it is free to pursue this with Tesla.

The only clarity is if it goes to court or some legal process to prove or otherwise what you claim. If you believe what you say - which you undoubtedly do - and MG are not responding in the way you want, then legal redress is the only way forward.

 

[Rutsy]

The only clarity is if it goes to court or some legal process to prove or otherwise what you claim. If you believe what you say - which you undoubtedly do - and MG are not responding in the way you want, then legal redress is the only way forward.

Which I why I am pursuing a claim with the ombudsmen.

 

[fred12345]

Which I why I am pursuing a claim with the ombudsmen.

Keep us updated please and especially of MG's arguments