Car or computer

[bowfer]

You would not credit it, but I,m now having problems with this computer!
In 1979 as a 18 year old numpty I was in my first car, after 3 weeks the indicators stopped working. I had had the foresight to buy a Haynes manual and after a quick look worked out the relay was shot. Local motor factor had them in stock and the problem from start to finish was resolved in 4 hours for 2 quid which included driving 10 miles.
If I was to post on this forum ( hypothetically ) had MG4 for 3 weeks , indicators stopped working, fuses fine as is hazards need car in 4 hours time, anyone any ideas, what responses could I expect.
If it turns out it has a relay , lots of humble pie for me.
As an aside do Haynes still publish relevant manuals?
Thanks for all the replies, My post was meant to include all modern cars not just EVs and MG in particular but I feel that a lot of this software led microchip controlled electronics is a way were manufacturers can tie you in to service plans so you get the updates and were 3rd party ,private garages just will not be able to access the servers of the cars maker rendering their services less desirable. As for people who would like to service or work on their own cars then the conditions of typically 7 year warranties are a major discouragement no matter what their skill levels , which puts us back to shelling out cash to essentially a cartel.

The warranties aren’t a discouragement to DIY fans, there just isn’t so much to do.
They can still change brake pads if they want, they can still change pollen filters themselves, they can still change coolants and transmission fluids.
If they can’t stand a life without tinkering, buy an old car/motorbike or find something else to do with their time.
Less maintenance on cars should be celebrated.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

The warranties aren’t a discouragement to DIY fans, there just isn’t so much to do.
They can still change brake pads if they want, they can still change pollen filters themselves, they can still change coolants and transmission fluids.
If they can’t stand a life without tinkering, buy an old car/motorbike or find something else to do with their time.
Less maintenance on cars should be celebrated.

Is it less maintenance or just someone else doing it, for a price?

 

[bowfer]

Is it less maintenance or just someone else doing it, for a price?

Less maintenance, clearly.
The servicing prices reflect that.

 

[Deleted member 9909]

Due to missing a big suck, squeeze, bang and blow lump all the bits contained in that are no longer a maintenance/service item. Washers fluids, yes. AC regassing maybe, filters yes, check brakes yes and possibly brake fluid replacement (but I am not getting into that debate) and check all the other ancillary stuff on all cars irrespective of propulsion method yes. So servicing can still include some bits just not as many.
The 12v is mostly the same as on ice cars, still have fuses and relays, bulbs and all such gubbings.. it just confusing and a bit scary now on modern cars, again irrespective of propulsion method, with all the onboard electronics and control units and component modules and software modules and updates and ? ....that are beyond a mere mortals understanding never mind the software diagnostic tools required....well beyond a Sunday tickle under the bonnet. But hey ho you can still change rubber bits, and discs and pads quite happily if you so desire

 

[FiferMG4]

a big suck, squeeze, bang and blow lump

That description made me chuckle. ?

 

[tsedge]

This is a very thought-provoking thread, with an intellegent premise. My take on the thoughts so far are: 1. I have two MacBook Pros which are 13 years old and are as great as the day they were born, plus one even older generic laptop running linux. So it is possible for even domestic electronics to last a long time. 2. Keeping a car for 18 years is impressive, but only practical when auto technology didn't move much. Nowadays car science is moving at a very rapid pace, and the cost of running older cars is becoming higher and higher. Case in point, we traded in my wife's 12 year old Skoda Fabia for an MG ZS EV in 2020, and saved around £10 a month overall, including garage bills, fuel etc. 3. Modern EV batteries (especially the Lithium Iron Phosphate kind) are expected to last around 1million miles, so the car running gear will wear out long before the battery becomes unusable (they're even talking about re-using old EV batteries in newer cars, rather than simply recycling the materials). So in conclusion, there will be very old EVs still on the roads in 10 years' time, but us "early adopters" will all have moved on to new shiny vehicles for economic and technological reasons. ...and my lesson regarding the MacBook Pros - if you buy the best, it'll last; if you don't, it wont!!

My MacBook Pro is a mere baby, only 10 years old. I keep meaning to replace it but it refuses to go wrong and supply me with an excuse. It is a little slow doing some things but that's what the kettle is for.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

Thank you, Briggie for bringing this thread back on track, I did ask the theoretical question about indicator failure, just looked through the fuse box area in the manual and cannot find anything related to this. There are some relays etc for other equipment but nothing specific.
As the indicators sound volume can be changed would it reasonable to assume that these are operated by a module or some integrated circuit board , as a mere mortal I,m just guessing , but that is the main point of my thread. If so, how would this problem be resolved, or others like it, when simple to fix problems become unnecessarily complicated expensive and time consuming, and possibly putting points on your licence if the bizzies pull you up.
More guesswork, you take it back to the dealer and hope your pockets are deep enough shrug your shoulders and thank the engineering designers, bean counters, and corporate lawyers for dragging us into the future, and become like the passengers on the spaceships in the film Wall E.

 

[Deleted member 9909]

OriginalBigAl, by using the search facility across all MG forums it would appear the answer to your hypothetical question maybe;


After posting on Speak EV, I had one answer back that said "Modern Cars are no longer fitted with Flasher Units, the speed of the flashing is controlled from the BCM (Body Control Module), the clicking sound during indicating and hazard operation that I can hear from the right drivers door speaker, is a generated audio tone from the BCM, not an actual Flasher relay unit".

 

[bowfer]

Thank you, Briggie for bringing this thread back on track, I did ask the theoretical question about indicator failure, just looked through the fuse box area in the manual and cannot find anything related to this. There are some relays etc for other equipment but nothing specific.
As the indicators sound volume can be changed would it reasonable to assume that these are operated by a module or some integrated circuit board , as a mere mortal I,m just guessing , but that is the main point of my thread. If so, how would this problem be resolved, or others like it, when simple to fix problems become unnecessarily complicated expensive and time consuming, and possibly putting points on your licence if the bizzies pull you up.
More guesswork, you take it back to the dealer and hope your pockets are deep enough shrug your shoulders and thank the engineering designers, bean counters, and corporate lawyers for dragging us into the future, and become like the passengers on the spaceships in the film Wall E.

You seem to struggle a bit with new tech and how it works.
The chance of failure of LED lights is tiny, extremely reliable.
So while they may cost more to repair (conjecture) they are fer less likely to fail in the first place.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

BCM , merci is that like a module or some integrated circuit board which is readily available and easy to change for the budding home mechanic , or back to the dealer?
I realise LED lights are long lasting , but the question was about the control electronics for them and the fact that for such a simple previously easily solved problem is now not . This is one theoretical problem , I,m sure there will be many more which in time will rear their ugly heads.
I,m not against progress or improved technology as long it IS progress. Why fix something which isn,t broke, unless of course you can make money out of it.

 

[Deleted member 9909]

BCM , merci is that like a module or some integrated circuit board which is readily available and easy to change for the budding home mechanic

I very much doubt it is easy to change unless you have that ability to load software from MG. It controls a number of functions. ? all these modules, control units etc. live long and prosper under our ownership?

 

[bowfer]

BCM , merci is that like a module or some integrated circuit board which is readily available and easy to change for the budding home mechanic , or back to the dealer?
I realise LED lights are long lasting , but the question was about the control electronics for them and the fact that for such a simple previously easily solved problem is now not . This is one theoretical problem , I,m sure there will be many more which in time will rear their ugly heads.
I,m not against progress or improved technology as long it IS progress. Why fix something which isn,t broke, unless of course you can make money out of it.

Why change to LED lights…?
They’re more reliable, they give a better and brighter light and they allow stylists to be more adventurous with design.
They are definitely progress.

Before there was relay and a bulb, which could be an absolute pig to change.
Now there’s a circuit and a reliable cluster of LEDs which may never need changing.

 

[OriginalBigAl]

I see Briggie is getting onboard with my assessment of this THEORECTICAL problem.
Bowfer is getting there but may I suggest that the word MAY is capitalised, I sense doubts.

 

[bowfer]

I see Briggie is getting onboard with my assessment of this THEORECTICAL problem.
Bowfer is getting there but may I suggest that the word MAY is capitalised, I sense doubts.

Don’t do drugs, kids

 

[tsedge]

There are two ways to go: make cars more reliable so they need little or no maintenance or make them easily maintainable so when they break anyone can fix it.

Due to the complexity of the electronics and software on modern EVs, the choice made has been the first one. So much so that the dealers themselves can often do nothing to solve a problem other than swap out the affected parts, with remote diagnosis from the manufacturer's central centre necessary for anything that is not simple.

Yes, this means the average person can do much less work to fix an EV. But then the average person these days won't even look under their car much less use any tools on it!

 

[OriginalBigAl]

There are two ways to go: make cars more reliable so they need little or no maintenance or make them easily maintainable so when they break anyone can fix it.

Due to the complexity of the electronics and software on modern EVs, the choice made has been the first one. So much so that the dealers themselves can often do nothing to solve a problem other than swap out the affected parts, with remote diagnosis from the manufacturer's central centre necessary for anything that is not simple.

Yes, this means the average person can do much less work to fix an EV. But then the average person these days won't even look under their car much less use any tools on it!

I understand exactly what your saying but my argument is that they are unnecessarily complex . I think this is so costs are less for the original build of the car, but this gets much more expensive when things go wrong, but not for the manufacturer. I thank you for saying I,m not average but you failed to say on which side?
As anyone else seen that pink elephant flying by?

 

[tsedge]

I understand exactly what your saying but my argument is that they are unnecessarily complex . I think this is so costs are less for the original build of the car, but this gets much more expensive when things go wrong, but not for the manufacturer. I thank you for saying I,m not average but you failed to say on which side?
As anyone else seen that pink elephant flying by?

Whether they are unnecessarily complex or not (which is a fair point, you may well be right), this is how it is and I don't think it will change.

Naturally I am saying you far exceed the average in whichever direction you'd be most happy with.

 

[stevegus]

Yeah I don't mean "at 10 years you will 100% need a new battery". They degrade over time and it is a substantial cost that you will need to keep in mind as it gets near the point where you cant accept the level it's at.


I haven't seen any OEM make a move towards that.

Its literally in the MG warranty that they will repair or replace the battery to be over the 70% warranted.


And as far as reliability of electronics is concerned, my 1990
Mazda MX5 with electronic computer controlled fuel injection and ignition starts first time after being laid up for months at 33 years old.

 

[jonney]

Its literally in the MG warranty that they will repair or replace the battery to be over the 70% warranted.


And as far as reliability of electronics is concerned, my 1990
Mazda MX5 with electronic computer controlled fuel injection and ignition starts first time after being laid up for months at 33 years old.

I didn't say anything about MG's warranty?

This thread is about long term ownership. Beyond the scope of any warranty.

 

[stevegus]

To simply for you:

MG warranty states they will REPAIR or replace the battery. This answers your expectations that a new battery is installed if the battery has an issue.

It isnt the stated case in the WARRANTY statement