Should I cancel my ZSEV order because of rising energy costs?

[Tiny Tim]

It looks like the only way you can have an EV is to charge it at home 95% of the time (even this might be questionable if this energy nonsense doesn't stop), also don't consider doing the drive around the continent as the E.U. doesn't even have a EV charging standard throughout the different countries. The infrastructure is a mess different cards, different rates and a host of different conditions i.e. in Portugal you require a Tax number. If the same applied to ICE cars, very few people would drive abroad. The greens and the E.U. pushed the EV without a moments forward thinking. So unless you want to just drive local it doesn't make sense.

In Portugal the way to get round the tax number thing is miio. This app apparently also works in spain and France. With this app you can charge at every public charger in Portugal. I haven't used it yet as I am still waiting for the car and probably will be for a few months yet.
Edit - moderator removed link with free 5€ credit because it was a referral link. No ? allowed - ironically! Sorry - I was trying to help!

 

[N2STY]

I have just done the figures for me. Currently we have 3 vehicles - Peugeot 3008 (derv) - 40MPG, Kia Rio (Derv) 60 MPG, Honda 125 scooter (petrol) 100 MPG.
Current fuel cost is Derv £1.817 per litre / Petrol £1.667 per litre.
Peugeot = 21p per mile
Kia = 14p per mile
Scooter = 8p per mile

Using an average of 0.3 kW per mile and predicted costs

Current electric cost 28p/kWh = 8.4p per mile.
October electric cost 52p/kWh = 15.6p per mile.
January electric cost (add 30%) 68p/kWh = 20p per mile.
April electric cost (add 14%) 78p/kWh = 23p per mile.

Electric Car is 3 year lease - taking to 2026.

What are predictions for petrol/derv costs over next year? According to the guardian they expect fuel to remain stable for the next 12 months.

In October it would be cheaper to take my Kia than electric.

In January (when we anticipate the ZS EV will finally arrive) the cost will be even.

April next year we will be worse off driving electric than our current Peugeot 3008.

Am thinking now we should go Petrol for next 3 years and see where we are in 3 years?

There is a big but here if you have a electric car than get a electric car tariff as low as 5p all day charging or you can go with the off peak tariffs then it's alot less than your working outs?

 

[megamac]

The way UK electricity price makes me wonder whether to cancel the ZS.

In Oct it will be 51p/kWh and when include stranding charge and energy lost it could cost like 54-55p/kWh received by EV.

My current petrol can get 33m/g on average regardless of outside temperature cause always on climate control cost £7.90.

To get 33 miles on ZS at the comfort and speed I travel in my petrol it might cost about 2.6-3m/kWh in summer/spring/autumn £ 6-7 probably 2.2-2.6 in winter £7-8.25 in October time charging at home. If I have to charge at public charger might cost about 65-66p/kWh at 3-7KW charger £ 7.30 - 8.40 and at DC charger could cost 76-77p/kWh £ 8.40 - 9.65 apart from winter time.

in winter might cost more, well Oct almost starting to cold for EV at AC charger £8.40 - 9.90 and at DC charger £9.70 - 11.40.

While petrol will only cost about 190p/l and for 33 miles about £ 8.65 with the availability of petrol in my car within 10 minutes to full tank which cover more than 320 miles at ease.

So far my ZS will not arrive till the end of Oct.

Even though petrol prices went up it now came down a bit. However electricity will only increase every 3 months. By the time of next price cap in Jan who knows might even reach to 60. And yet the charging infrastructure will be way behind.

So anyone has any thoughts about going with EV in UK??

I want my ZS but the price of energy saying no to it. Yes there is less cost for maintenance and tax and parking but EV has battery degradation and still need maintenance. Beside by the time I might received my ZS its already 18 months old tech for used car market.

Any advice guys???

Just saw this article…

Electric cars will be more expensive to run than petrol — The Telegraph

Cost of travelling long distances will be much higher under the new price cap

apple.news

 

[kin]

Politicians can waffle on all they want but this energy thing is of their making ..... no ifs no buts.

Couldn’t agree more!

 

[kin]

It takes an enormous amount of electricity to refine oil into its component parts, so as the cost of charging an EV goes up, the cost of fossil fuel will also increase.

As for why I bought an EV, I've always been fascinated by electric vehicles, and I wouldn't mind trying to do my bit to save the planet.

Even if the power source is coming from coal to charge your EV, it’s still greener than ICE.

 

[BrianG]

So where are the people with the good off peak power deals? I pay Octopus 5p a kWh for 4 hours a night, rising to 7.5p in September fixed for 12 months. My ZS EV, mk 1 averages 3.5 miles per kWh. I also have an ASHP which runs on off peak power for much of the time. My 10,000 kWh usage per year is 44/56 night day tariff. Even with my increased tariff from September my bill will be £2,500 for the year. Mileage approx 5,000 a year, but anyone doing less than 80 miles a day 7 days a week could manage on 4 hours charging each night at 2p a mile or better.
And driving an EV does change your driving style, brakes are rarely used in earnest.

 

[BrianG]

Just saw this article…

Electric cars will be more expensive to run than petrol — The Telegraph

Cost of travelling long distances will be much higher under the new price cap

apple.news

The Telegraph would say that because it’s readers like to believe in and live in the past.

 

[BrianG]

Electricity prices are terribly over where they should be. We have had a lack of wind for the last 6 weeks but if the jet-stream forecast is right we can expect a hooley blowing up around the 7th of September and new record breaking output in excess of 20 GW. Because we pay the rate for the most expensive generation at any time the low cost renewable power generators get much more than they need. The Low Carbon Contracts Company will receive excess over cfds as a refund. The war situation has created an unusual use of the UK power system. We have been importing LNG into Haverfordwest since the end of April, converting it to gas and sending it via pipelines to Belgium and the Netherlands almost continuously at maximum the pipes can cope with. At the same time we have been sending up to 5GW of electricity via the interconnectors to France, Belgium, The Netherlands and Norway consuming ~ 9 GW of gas. The European gas storage is reaching 85% full, helped considerably by the UK.

We continue to receive LNG now into the 3 terminals 2 in Milford Haven and one on the Isle of Grain. Presumably we can supply the UK over winter by tankers and redirect a lot of Norwegian gas to Europe. The tankers vary in size but some Qatari tankers hold enough to supply London‘s gas heating for 7 winter days. They unload in 30 hours. If gas is not needed for electricity generation the 3 LNG terminals could supply much of UKs gas needs in all but the cold winter months and whilst we don’t have much storage here we can borrow from Europe.

 

[BrianG]

We in Denmark are already there.

A few days ago the price topped out at £1.05 and please remember that this was even on a day where solar panels did theirs to help out a bit.

Honestly i dont think higher prices in the dead of winter on a cold, dark, windless day will be any lower than that.

Let us all hope for a mild winter, with lots of wind, and solar power.

Mild, because atleast here, the government have been heavily advocating for people with oil powered boilers go get heatpumps, and if the weather is really cold, they will draw heavily on the grid.

Not to mention the EV's

Ouch! For those giving up oil heating there is a big saving in energy needed. I swapped 12 months ago and use about 6,000 kWh for the heat pump compared to 24,000 kWh equivalent in oil. That may not make economic sense for the short period now but in the longer term it should. A new 1.4 GW interconnector is to be built between the UK and Denmark to share frequent excess wind power. We may have that by 2026 and certainly well before 2030.

 

[Headgas1]

We don’t have much gas storage because National Grid shut them all down and our government allowed it for years now we have been exporting our gas instead of keeping it for our own use they built an inter connector from here into Europe and said it is there to import gas from Europe within days we were exporting it because the price was right so short sighted but that’s the uk government for you I’m afraid.

 

[Robf]

I’m also on Octopus Go, if I remember correctly, I think the new off peak hours has changed from 2330 to 0530 now instead of 0030 to 0430.

Thats interesting, please let us know where you got that info from, e.g. a link please. (octopus website is 12.30 to 4.30 am for go)

 

[hmadsen]

Ouch! For those giving up oil heating there is a big saving in energy needed. I swapped 12 months ago and use about 6,000 kWh for the heat pump compared to 24,000 kWh equivalent in oil. That may not make economic sense for the short period now but in the longer term it should. A new 1.4 GW interconnector is to be built between the UK and Denmark to share frequent excess wind power. We may have that by 2026 and certainly well before 2030.

Yeah, here they had pitched gas heating very heavily, i have a former colleague that 2 years ago got a brand new gas fired central heating system installed.

He is NOT a happy guy at the moment.

Here a lot of houses use heating that comes in the form of hot water, directly from a heating plant, i use this method to heat my house as well.

Suddenly for some reason, a lot of roads are being dug up, to put in larger diameter pipes for this, and pavements being dug up, to connect houses to this heating source.

In 2016 we expanded out house, and at the same time we dug out the floors in about 80 sqm of our house, insulated it and put in floor heating.

We just about halved the energy usage per year, partly because of the leaky wall that we tore down, where we added the extra rooms to our house, and partly, because of the floor heating.

At that the savings were £600 a year, but right now the price for heating for us is about double, and i bet they will have to raise prices, come winter.

The price for this heating is not going to go totally bonkers, because some of the heat, comes from burning what we put in our trashcan, but i do believe they use some gas/oil so prices will go up.

Personally i dont fear the price hikes of water and heating so much, as the price hike of electricity.

I have told the kids that in winter, when we produce no electricity, they might be asked to use their laptop instead of their dual screen gaming computer setup, to watch youtube video's as the laptop uses significantly less power than the gaming computer.

Also we have agreed to lower the temperature in the house by 1-2 degrees, not so much to save money, but also to save on energy, so that there will be "enough for everybody".

 

[johnnyc]

For me, having an EV is actually massively going to save me money compared to the SVR.

Octopus go rates as they stand are still 40p peak and 7.5p off peak. Meaning that for every kWh I use during the day I’m saving 12p against the SVR. Whilst for every night kWh I use I’m saving 44.5p against the SVR.

Total ‘savings’ for me based on 3000kwh house usage and 12000 miles is just shy of £2500. So for me it’s all about being on the right tariff.

I understand that not everyone can benefit from this as they can’t charge at home. But you can get cheaper electric because you have an EV.

 

[kin]

This is weird, I was looking for the new rate the other day and saw the off peak hours, I couldn’t find it now??
Apologies, I’ll delete my comment.

 

[kin]

Thats interesting, please let us know where you got that info from, e.g. a link please. (octopus website is 12.30 to 4.30 am for go)

Ahh! There you go, found it, it was called the intelligent Octopus 23:30-05:30

 

[Robf]

Ahh! There you go, found it, it was called the intelligent Octopus 23:30-05:30

Yes, that is not Octopus Go but Intelligent Octopus,they are different options. Octopus go is from 12.30 to 4.30 am, best not get these confused

 

[kin]

Yes, that is not Octopus Go but Intelligent Octopus,they are different options. Octopus go is from 12.30 to 4.30 am, best not get these confused

Thanks, now I looked properly it’s called Intelligent, so what is the difference then, it has more cheap rate hours. Does it only give you cheap rate only when charging?

 

[JSAND59]

There is a big but here if you have a electric car than get a electric car tariff as low as 5p all day charging or you can go with the off peak tariffs then it's alot less than your working outs?

I have had a look at the tariffs this morning.
I use 100 kWh per week of which 7 kWh is in the off peak period.
To do 100 miles per week estimate 30 kWh additional off peak.

New tariff rates for EV charging is not yet published so have used current rates to compare.

Am with Eon Next on standard tariff and cost with EV is £2080 per year. Know this will go up in October to £3639 per year.

Have tried several EV rates and Eon economy 7 and they are more expensive due to the split - 93 kWh peak / 37 kWh off peak.

 

[Robf]

I am really not so sure, I think that it is more tied to the car. Hopefully someone who is on Intelligent Octopus can give you the full run down. Although I think they are well explained on the website. i am on Go anf find it fits my needs well.

 

[Whiskery]

I am on Intelligent Octopus. This tariff gives an off peak period of 2330-0530. It might also give additional periods of off peak slots anytime outside those hours if the car is plugged in.
For example, if I plug in at 1730 and request via the app 60% charge to complete by 0700, it will provide this charge anytime between 1730 and 0700. The bonus is that all household usage is billed at the off peak rate (mine is 7.5p) whilst the car is charging. HTH.